What do YOU believe?

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[76387]

76387 Posts in 6760 Topics by 681 Members
Latest Member: wiltar

[Farm]

but to imply that they are guilty because of what you think, makes no sense to me.

I think I can help.

This site differs from the supporter sites in two extremly important ways.

First, the majority of people who post here have actually read the court transcripts, and have seen the evidence the Juries saw, which is how they came to the same conclusion.

That is not the case with supporter sites, where the overwhelming majority of their members have only seen the silly rhetoric that other supporters have fed them.

Secondly, most here also stress the urgency of reading those transcripts before making a decision, where as the very survival of the supporter movement relies on complete ignorance of the facts,

This is because once you have read, and are familiar with those facts, the supporter argument falls flat on it's ass.

If you have an argument for innocence, please feel free to proffer it, and I'm sure someone here will lead you to whatever documentation you have overlooked.

As far as proving guilt, that burden has been met and satisfied by the Prosecution... it's up to you to challenge the evidence they presented if you disagree with the verdicts.

If you need a starting point, perhaps you can explain how we are all supposed to simply disregard multiple sworn eyewitness acounts of an accomplice - one of which in the presence of his own attorney?

[kizzaMyaz]

I will give this a shot. Where do I start?? I will keep it simple I saw & heard every word everyday in court. After 14yrs.still guilty, after a nother 14yrs. they will still be guilty, until the end of time, still guilty.
Glad I could help,
jmb

[Scott]

Hello - I was interested to visit this forum to see what non-supporters have to say. Everyone has a right to free speech, so I have kept an open mind and read a lot of the posts.
It seems to me that a lot of the talk here consists of some of you saying ....."I think...etc etc" 

You are making this assumption in a single thread that was designed from the beginning to get people's opinion not so much fact. "What do YOU believe?" that is asking people what they think happened on May 5 1993 hypothetically not factual. We were not there so we can't know all the facts of what happened.

It was a question to seek ideas from people and how they "think".

If you look at other threads such as the one I wrote about Damien lying on the stand then there is no "thinking" it is based on factual information.

You're just confused on what this thread is about.

[Wised]

Hello Newbie,

Hello - I was interested to visit this forum to see what non-supporters have to say. Everyone has a right to free speech, so I have kept an open mind and read a lot of the posts.
It seems to me that a lot of the talk here consists of some of you saying ....."I think...etc etc"
Here is one example from pirie87, and I quote:  "I think the fact that Jessie confessed shows he didn't "preplan" some nasty little prank on three kids.  I think his words during his confessionS show that he was caught up in what the other two intended to do".    
And another from Wised: I quote: "I think it's pretty obvious that Jessie got caught up in their horror show and I think the alcohol loosened his inhibitions".
And still another: I quote: "I do NOT think the other two got "caught up" in anything.  I think they were rotten to the core then and I think they are rotten to the core now".
I understand and appreciate that everyone has an opinion, but to imply that they are guilty because of what you think, makes no sense to me. Sure - have an opinion, but if you truly believe they committed the crimes, then give me reasons and back it up with factual evidence.  
I hope this can be a fair discussion as I have come here to try and understand why those of you believe the WM3 are guilty.  
 

  



As you can clearly see, I asked for opinions....what people THOUGHT.  Hence the words "I think" before each person's description of what they think happened.

It's pretty clear we think it is FACT that these three brutal men murdered three little boys.  

Otherwise, each and every person who answered would not have answered, right?


Now....you want fact.

The fact is that no one can state for "fact" what went on inside their heads that horrible night.  We know they killed them.  We know what they did to them.  But no one knows for sure "why", and what wheels turned inside those evil minds that evening.

I said "I think" because it's all conjecture, isn't it?  No one, except for those three, can say, for sure...

And I can guarantee you they ain't talkin.

I think this can and is a fair discussion; it has been and will continue to be.
  

I understand and appreciate that everyone has an opinion, but to imply that they are guilty because of what you think, makes no sense to me.
 

 

I'm glad you understand and appreciate that.  I can appreciate your opinion, too.  But I think before attacking the posters' opinions, perhaps you should read a little more?  They weren't implying they are guilty because of what they think, in this thread.  They already KNOW they are guilty, and they are expressing what they THINK might have been going on inside someone's head that fateful night.

But even if they were talking about why they are guilty, and expressing what they think, I think possibly you should evaluate your thoughts on that, as well.

We all THINK differently.  We have all been shown the facts, and the "fact" that there are non boards and supporter boards alike, means that we can look at the same thing at times and see things differently.  Some are wrong....as in supporters.......but whatever...

That explain it good enough for you?

 

[Wised]

And just to clarify....

These two, Jason and Damien, are liars.  Read the thread about the afternoon of the murders' alibis ALONE.  Just the afternoon...so screwed up between all the lies.......

So it's pretty much "figure out" what was going on inside their heads, isn't it?

Unless you want to try and believe a liar.

[rugs]

Kutsnake,

You'll never get your head around this case for as long as you - and people like you - are unwilling to accept that some of the most damning evidence was provided by an active participant in the crimes. You can cry 'coercion' 'til Larner comes home, if you so choose. The fact of the matter is, Ofshe was/is a fraud. An 1/8 of Pulitzer or not.

Explain to the good people here, if you can, why Misskelley made several confessions? Doesn't the one he made in the presence of his lawyer (who pleaded with him not to), strike you as odd?

Now this is by no means the 'be all and end all' of it, yet it is quite apparent that it is an insurmountable hurdle for those who foolishly believe the convicted are innocent.

[Swan]

Kutsnake,

First of all if you havent already re read Farms post as that pretty much somes up this board .


You took Wiseds question out of context and I would like to warn you, now WARN, Im not going to tell you what to believe but let me warn you that on the supporter board there is a lot of propaganda by a lot of supporters going around on this case because of what they THINK, not what is fact in document.

Im sure your familar with other NON boards or go on the Calli site and look at links and do some back reading as well, you will find the truth and read the documents its all on there.


Good luck you will find the truth but you have to read a lot read again back threads and Callis sites read on all boards and again take Farms post into serious consideration as that is what this board is. Your new still there is a lot to absorb hell Im still absorbing but its out there.

[kendastar]

Hiya all... Great new bored.

I too think that it was something that was planned... as they had already killed animals - as said by Jessie - It was a progression to go on to larger things... I too do not think that they singled out the 3 boys... I do however think that they probably looked at a number of different people of different ages sex etc.

In my opinion I tend to think that Damien was some what the leader... and I think that because he seems so manipulative of other people... I believe that it would be easy for him to talk someone into doing things... especially if that person had the same violent tendancies as he... I have studied a few people with very similar mental health reports as the ones that I have read on Damien and they were master manipulators with the ability to pretty much talk anyone into anything just by tone of voice... words... body language etc... I believe that this is what Damien is like... In regards to Jason I think that he perhaps just needed an excuse to show some violence... just needed a certain trigger... To me Jessie was a follower... Wanting to do anything so that they would be friends or whatever... I could be wrong but this is my opinion. 

And I agree I do think that there are a lot of people that have knowledge of what happened and how the 3 did it

[little_eiffel]

Ok, I am one of the very few people who have never seen PL 1 or 2, or read any books written about the murders. I am not a member of the supporter site....I just now became a member here in order to answer the "What do You Believe" post.
I have however read all the court transcripts, confessions, and I have seen all the evidence shown during the trials.....

I have never had an opinion about the case until I got into college and needed a topic for an assignment in a class. Now, I do not think the WM3 commited these murders...nor do I think it was JMB......I will not comment on Hobbs because for now the DNA of his hair doesn't do too much for me except show that the WM3 were not there.

What I believe is that the WM3 are not guilty.......I do not know who the guilty party would be, but it isn't Jesse, Jason, or Damien. In the same region there were other similar crimes from Morgan Nick to another little girl who was murdered in a similar way to the 3 at RHH.

It is just my opinion, and we are all entitled to our own opinions, that the WM3 are innocent.

[BlackAngel]

I looked up Morgan Nick, she was kidnapped and from what I read never found and this was in 1995, The three children were murdered and mutilated,. As far as hair from Terry Hobbs that is more than likely secondary transfer, and it doesn't surprise me one bit, he was a family member.

Jan.

[Farm]

I have however read all the court transcripts, confessions, and I have seen all the evidence shown during the trials.....

Would you mind if I gave you a little test?

What evidence was presented that refutes Jessie's sworn confessions?

[Kimbo]

Hi eiffel, you said

I do not know who the guilty party would be, but it isn't Jesse, Jason, or Damien. In the same region there were other similar crimes from Morgan Nick to another little girl who was murdered in a similar way to the 3 at RHH.

The only reference you provided (Morgan Nick) is - as Jan points out - still listed as a missing person. So let's strike that one, in terms of M.O. Could you please provide details as to the other "similar crimes"?

Kendastar, I agree completely. My opinion too.

[Passing Through]

I just stopped in to see what these boards were like and I'm a little confused.  I am a supporter, but I do not in any way try to push my opinions on anyone else.  I understand the supporter boards - they are a place for supporters (obviously) to discuss the case and pose their theories.  I honestly don't think I have ever even posted on the supporter board before.  But I don't understand a non-supporter board.  Regardless of your opinion - the WM3 are in prison and have been convicted of the crimes.  Why is a non-supporter discussion board needed?  It just seems that most (not all) of the subjects on this board are all started by one person, and quite a few are just making fun of something that is being said on a supporter board.  So, personally - in my opinion - if it were me (and all of that that needs to be said so no one gets too pissy) -  if I believed that someone had committed a crime and then that person was pronounced guilty in a court of law and put in prison, I would not need to waste my time on a message board making sure that everyone else knows my opinion and/or telling them they are "wrong" if they don't believe the way I do.  There are way too many other things in life to worry about.  They were convicted and in the opinion of the non-supporters, it was done justly.  Why are you spending precious time worrying about it?  Unfortunately for me and other supporters, the only way they will get out is if new evidence is presented to prove their innocence.  I'm not trying to piss anyone off - really!  I just don't understand how you have nothing better to worry about in life than discussing a crime that has already been judged in a way that you believe is just.  What is the point?   Let the ripping begin.......

[Kimbo]

Hi ducky

Can I answer?

It is the righteousness of it, for me. The fact that the murderers, convicted of such horrible crimes should be lauded is almost beyond my (and it seems others’) belief. Yet they are.... as has always happened with teen killers.

Even little bit of the evidence toward them makes sense. They were convicted of the heinous murder of children and there is NOTHING I have ever read that ever made me question that fact.

Yet they are supported by rock stars, prominent people, who have been fed the slight brown spiel. Those MF’s are organised. Haha. It’s just WRONG.

It is a sad story in all. I think “nons” (or at least this one) want to somehow set things straight, back into balance. Not fix the unfixable - the murders of the children - just to hopefully see that justice is somewhat done, and the truth of the convicted murderers is known.

[Farm]

Why is a non-supporter discussion board needed?

To provide what supporter sites don't.

The facts of the case.