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[112885]

112885 Posts in 8614 Topics by 4618 Members
Latest Member: garrymoore

[Rudder]

It's been quite a while since I watched the movie, so I put it in to give it another go round. This time, things started striking me funny right off the bat. I've got the movie in my dvd player, so I can pause and listen and see stuff on demand. Plus, I'm sitting in front of the computer, so as soon as I see something, I pause and make the note. I'm maybe a third of the way through, but have already jotted down this:

Pam felt guilty but knows it wasn't her fault because she was at work. Blames Terry because he wasn't at work?

Baldwin- pet cat, charlie. catch a fish behind trailer, give it to him

echol- cops needed to find somebody before they lost their jobs, people calling incompetant (less than 1 month?) they were the obvious choice because they stood out (like bojangles and king sam beasley didn't stand out?)

stidham tells misskelly that if he underperforms on his iq test, the state can't impose death sentance.

Jessie sr. advises not to hit walls but other people, "jack those jaws".

lee rush (Sr.s girlfriend) obviously knows he's guilty and refuses to sing happy bday)
Most pathetic rendition ever. Don't smoke too much? He can't smoke at all now, lol.

Misskelly reads a bday card almost flawlessly in rhyme, retarded?

Sons can be slouchy
sons can be sweet
sons can be grouchy
and sons can be neat
sons could be broke
sons could be well to do
but no son could ever be loved more than you.

Stidham at Jessie Sr bbq, telling people not to talk to anyone.

Right now, I'm at the scene where the Byers are at Chris' gravesite (pentagram on Marks head). I'll continue making notes as I finish watching this.

[sheer]

That's a good idea, I haven't watched them for AGES.


sheer

[jeff1121]

One thing that jumped out at me with repeated watchings was Jason's swinging back and forth in his chair nervously, especially in the presence of Damien. Damien's reference to drugs and violence in a joking manner was also inappropriate, given his situation.

In short, I think the community of West Memphis, Arkansas had a "family problem" on May 5, 1993 and they took care of it.

"I thought the evidence was more than sufficient to make those findings" - Judge Burnett

HBO created this controversy in my opinion.

[offamychain]

Damien's reference to drugs and violence in a joking manner was also inappropriate, given his situation.

 Well, he IS several crackers short of a full barrel, so it's not surprising. 

[MachaSidhe]

What I remember most-

Seeing Micheal , Chris and Stevie

The opening words Mrs. Byers said about Chris

Watching and hearing the victims families
 
The boogyman comment 

The phone call between Misskelley and his girlfriend - didn't hear a child's mind  in that phone call

The phone call that Rudder mentioned

Echols saying his son's first words would be capital murder

Echols on the stand

Bladwin and Echols joking

Baldwin saying he would of had a hard time finding Echols not guilty - this was his best friend , together everyday.

Misskelley looing like he was trying to hide under the table when the confession was played

Lee Rush , her words and reactions.....it would suprise me if she wasn't remembering Misskelleys night time crying

Macha

[offamychain]

 
 You got me interested, so I decided to watch again also. Will be interesting to compare our notes. I bet many of the things we see will be similar.

 The VERY first thing that I noticed....on the FIRST watching.....was just how much of a hypocrite JMB is portrayed to be. I do realize that this is a film, made to be dramatic, so a certain % of everything we see in it is surely "artistic". But personally, be a strong Christian myself, I don't go to church & lead the choir one day, then talk about pissing on someone's grave the next. But it's actually not surprising, the way that he's flip-flopped in real life, going from one of the most hard-core "nons", to the most rabid "supporter", in just a matter of days.

 Another thing that I noticed the first time is the cigarettes....does EVERYONE in those families smoke.....geesh!!

 Lee Rush is a joke....both ways. I have 4 daughters & can tell you that a parent WILL NOT turn their back on their kid....no matter what. We may do as Jessie Sr. said & agree that they have to do the time for their crime.....but we damn sure won't simply forget about them. I do hope that Rush has no kids, because she definitely has no idea what a parents job is. She's just being the ass that I feel she really is during the birthday song....but yes, she does know that he's guilty as sin. And she proves that yet again when telling Jessie Sr. that they are going to have a problem over him not wanting to simply abandon his kid.

 And one other thing that really jumped out at me.....and I normally don't talk bad about dead people....but Melissa Byer's comment about hating the mothers who gave birth to the 3 murderers was just wrong. As a parent, you TRY to protect them when they are babies, raise them as best you can when they are kids, & HOPE that they remember your examples when they reach their teen-age years & make the correct decisions. But above the age of 10 or so, kids start really thinking on their own & making decisions for theirselve. If they go bad wrong, that's not necessarily any fault at all of the parents. No reason to hate them for a decision that the murderers made on their own. Does she honestly believe that the parents of the guilty 3 are somehow responsible for this crime......bull-shit.

 

[Rudder]

Well, my computer must have did an update last night because my notes are gone.

Anyone know where Lee Rush is now? I'd be willing to bet she could shed some light on some shit. And "chain", regardless of what you think of her, she did mention that she had a son, and I think she was showing genuine empathy by saying "fuck him if he did it."

[sheer]

Does she honestly believe that the parents of the guilty 3 are somehow responsible for this crime......bull-shit.

She may have?
I think it's a natural comment to make personally. She is a mother whose child was murdered. They are mothers whose children have killed hers and they knew it too.
She lost her child, they have theirs.

This is all conjecture as:
1.) I'm not a mother
(and more importanly.........
2.) I'm not Melissa.

Anyway, when does that responsibilty or knowledge of your child end?
Jason's grandparents were not surprised after hearing what he had done?
Jessie has been in trouble with the law a fair few times and got into fights.
Damien...well.
Damien's parents said that they were scared of him being in their home with other children present.
If they felt that about him................why did they allow him to roam about town? His mother supported him whilst he got Domini pregnant. Where was his responsibilty?

I don't think Melissa said anything wrong and I certainly don't think it's "bullshit". Apparently during filming, Melissa kept some of Chris' clothes at the door and everytime Bruce and Joe would come in/go out she would show them his clothes to show how small he was. It obviously choked them up. Yet funnily enough they didn't include it in the finished film.
(I am paraphrasing as it's on the commentary for the DVD, but I can't remember where.)


sheer

[offamychain]

 Ooh, make no mistake, she WAS telling i exactly as she felt....which is why I made the statement se doesn't deserve to be a parent. My daughters have been raised well, just as I was. They are still young & haven't gotten into those terrible teen years yet. I trust that they will make the right decisions when they start to venture out into the world themselves.....I've shown them what those right decisions are, as my parents did me.

 BUT, heaven forbid, if they DO screw up.....they won't be abandoned. Not saying I'll do anything in my power to HIDE them....no, just as Jessie Sr. said....if they screw up, they've got to face the consequences. But during that time, their parents will still be there for them also. That's my job and I take it seriously.

 As I said, I was raised VERY well, but I rebeled somewhat also when I hit about 16 & became a young adult. I was by no means a saint or angel. I have been in jail 3 times for minor crimes....just more-or-less teen-age nonsense & hell raising. The longest sentence was 4 days....and I STAYED there for 4 days. Daddy didn't come bail me out. But guess what, daddy never abandoned me either. He did his job as a parent.

 Lee Rush has no idea what that word means..."parent"...and she proves it by her own actions.  If her attitude for her OWN biological son,, if he got into some serious trouble, was, "To hell with you. Stay in there & rot as far as I'm concerned."....then she's either lieing & being an ass, which I don't believe she was....or telling the truth & being a more complete ass....which seems to be the case.

 Also caught something else on the tape...Damien calling the cops that arrested him "Pigs". Way to go brilliant. You're in the trial that will decide how you spend the rest of your life & still display that piss-poor attitude....shows he really is almost brain-dead.

[offamychain]

Does she honestly believe that the parents of the guilty 3 are somehow responsible for this crime......bull-shit.

She may have?
I think it's a natural comment to make personally. She is a mother whose child was murdered. They are mothers whose children have killed hers and they knew it too.
She lost her child, they have theirs.

This is all conjecture as:
1.) I'm not a mother
(and more importanly.........
2.) I'm not Melissa.

Anyway, when does that responsibilty or knowledge of your child end?
Jason's grandparents were not surprised after hearing what he had done?
Jessie has been in trouble with the law a fair few times and got into fights.
Damien...well.
Damien's parents said that they were scared of him being in their home with other children present.
If they felt that about him................why did they allow him to roam about town? His mother supported him whilst he got Domini pregnant. Where was his responsibilty?

I don't think Melissa said anything wrong and I certainly don't think it's "bullshit". Apparently during filming, Melissa kept some of Chris' clothes at the door and everytime Bruce and Joe would come in/go out she would show them his clothes to show how small he was. It obviously choked them up. Yet funnily enough they didn't include it in the finished film.
(I am paraphrasing as it's on the commentary for the DVD, but I can't remember where.)


sheer

 Well, actually maybe that statement wasn't clear enough....my fault. I didn't mean it "Bullshit, Melissa DIDN'T really think the parents were responsible.", it was meant as "Bullshit, the parents didn't have anything to do with this murder." Melissa herself may definitely have felt they were, I didn't know her. But she's blaming the wrong person/people by incuding the mothers.

 By that same mode of thinking, it could easily be turned around & blame placed on the CHILDREN'S parents, by the parents of the killers, for letting their little boys wander out of eye-sight. It's a dangerous world out there....we see it every day. But if a person thinks that a parent can keep track of a child all 86,400 seconds of the day, they are saddly mistaken.

 The "where does the responsibility end" is a very fine line, & I can see your side of the story also. But Melissa condemned all THREE of the women for simpy giving birth to the 3 killers. But maybe I'm the only one who sees the ignorance in that.

 Anyway, I'm not going to say anything more of that. She's passed away & I'm not trying to disrespect her, so I'l just let it be.


 

[Rudder]

blame placed on the CHILDREN'S parents, by the parents of the killers, for letting their little boys wander out of eye-sight.

Dana (Diane?) Moore actually says this in the movie, that the murderers parents were looking at her like it was her fault for having a child for their kids to murder.

"echol- cops needed to find somebody before they lost their jobs, people calling incompetant (less than 1 month?) they were the obvious choice because they stood out"

I want to touch on this for a minute. Who honestly believes this load of crap? It's 1993 for crying out loud, is anyone shocked by black t-shirts and metal at this point? Long haired freaks have been the norm since the 60's. Hell, Elvis started the revolution back in the early 50's, and did so right there in fucking Memphis. I was a teenager in Alabama in the 80's, just as south and just as conservative, and I never witnessed this kind of prejudice. The only one thinking these asshats stood out is the asshats themselves. What's that old saying? "Yes, you are unique. Just like everyone else".

[auburnesq]

But Melissa condemned all THREE of the women for simpy giving birth to the 3 killers. But maybe I'm the only one who sees the ignorance in that.

In general I agree with what you are saying - that at some point people will need to stop blaming others (or allowing people to blame others) and accept responsibility for their own actions. However, I perceived Melissa's statement as more of a lashing out than an actual condemnation of the mothers. I wouldn't call that ignorance on Melissa's part, I'd call that a mother coping with the loss of her child in the best way she knew how.

I am a mother and I can't say that I wouldn't make the same statement if somene were to harm my son.  Of course I am a hothead (my hubby blames it on me being a redheaded Italian), so that might make my reaction a bit more overboard than the average person.

[Rudder]

But Melissa condemned all THREE of the women for simpy giving birth to the 3 killers. But maybe I'm the only one who sees the ignorance in that.

In general I agree with what you are saying - that at some point people will need to stop blaming others (or allowing people to blame others) and accept responsibility for their own actions. However, I perceived Melissa's statement as more of a lashing out than an actual condemnation of the mothers. I wouldn't call that ignorance on Melissa's part, I'd call that a mother coping with the loss of her child in the best way she knew how.

I am a mother and I can't say that I wouldn't make the same statement if somene were to harm my son.  Of course I am a hothead (my hubby blames it on me being a redheaded Italian), so that might make my reaction a bit more overboard than the average person.

I didn't take what Melissa said literally, but more like a "sonofabitch" comment. Break down sonofabitch and you are basically telling someone their mother is a bitch, although no one actually means that.

[perculator65]

Jessies reactions in court definatly stood out to me.Practically hideing his head under the desk and even at times turning his back...I don't give a shit if his lawyer told him to keep his head down or not the way he acted was as if it were pure guilt....Lee Rush thought jessie  was guilty thats a given...Jessies moms comment about "we always knew he had problems" stood out.....Before the verdict in the misskelly trial when there in the room with jessies family the one girl says " damien was a good kid" and misskelly looks at her like "what are you kidding me"  check it out..  I could go on and on but i don't feel like typing anymore

[offamychain]

 Oh yeah. I noticed that right off the bat. Jessie was showing his guilt in every action he made. Like the Prosecuter mentioned to the jury, "He won't look up. He won't look at you." Easy reason why....he's guilty as sin & he knows it. He's not stupid...he KNOWS better than to let people see his face & be able to read the guilt that he can't erase off of it.

 And Damien was simply his usual mindless self.....calling cops, "pigs", rolling his eyes, looking like a freak-show, & constantly showing that, "I'm better than you are & everything anybody else says is a lie"......same attitude that has made him a celebrity to scores of the easily led sheep. And that's exactly the WRONG attitude to present when involved in a court case which WILL determine the outcome of the rest of your life.

 Even the so-called "retarded" Miskelley could figure that out.....that's why he kept his face down all the time, so people couldn't see the reflections in his eyes of the 3 boys he helped kill.