For Miranda: Damien and the Great Dane

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112883 Posts in 8614 Topics by 4618 Members
Latest Member: garrymoore

[sheer]

If you wish to believe in the totality of a young lad from a dysfunctional background with only a basic education giving a police statement about an event that allegedly occurred about a year earlier then that is, of course, your prerogative.

OOKKK.

"Lads" from "Dysfunctional backgrounds" normally have a much better grasp on the whole area of police and giving statements than more privileged kids. They'll be more confidant. It's called cultural capital (and is something I've raised a few times where Jessie is concerned for some time.)

Regardless, why is his background dysfunctional? What evidence do you have to support your assertion? (aspersion)

Surely you must see how hypocritical it is to believe Damien over Joe Bartoush, Blaine Hodge and his own mother who saw his dog skull!!

I mean we have proof of Damien's "dysfunctional background"............so I take it we can't believe him either?  ;)


sheer

[Miranda]

Sorry I should have used the word 'right' rather than prerogative I guess!  Lol  We all have 'rights'.

Just so that I get this right are you trying to tell me that I am stupid but educated or that I have stupid opinions?  The former is a tad hard to grasp.

Most prosecutors and defence attornies are both intelligent and educated hence my comment to you about cut and pasting was not the put down you seem to feel it was.  Everyone tends to present an argument from their perspective.  It is healthy!

As t not joining in the slanging matches TJM - 'bin there, done that'.  It may well surprise you that I was a rebel in my youth but that youth is long gone now.

You would seem to try to pick a fight with me when ever you can.  Your choice.  My choice is to ignore.  Sad thing is that you also miss the compliments but then I guess if they come from me they must be wrong!!

I must confess I am curious as to why you chose to high-light the 'P' word!

Miranda

[Miranda]

"Lads" from "Dysfunctional backgrounds" normally have a much better grasp on the whole area of police and giving statements than more privileged kids. They'll be more confidant. It's called cultural capital (and is something I've raised a few times where Jessie is concerned for some time.)

Regardless, why is his background dysfunctional? What evidence do you have to support your assertion? (aspersion)

Surely you must see how hypocritical it is to believe Damien over Joe Bartoush, Blaine Hodge and his own mother who saw his dog skull!!

I mean we have proof of Damien's "dysfunctional background"............so I take it we can't believe him either?  ;)


sheer

Not to mention nasturtiums!

I may well be wrong but I think the bo was still pretty young and was describing a specific event that had occurred about a year earlier.  In my view it might well have been all just rumour and hearsay but, equally, it could have been pure fact!

I agree the skull is well documented and definitely existed.  Was it tested to confirm that it was indeed from a Great Dane?

If the technology of today had existed then maybe someone would have taken a photo on a cell phone - but even that is now open to doubt due to the ability to photo-shop digital images!

I apologise unreservedly if the lad came from a stable and caring background with no re-marraiges among his parents with regular solid employment and school attendance etcetera!  I have had the distinct impression that many of these statements were made and taken after the murders when there was a high degree of fear and 'excitement' abounding as well as a strong desire to have the case solved as speedily as possible.  But then from my perspective, there had already become apparent a desire for that 5 minutes of fame as well as a crack at that reward.

I have never claimed that DE was always honest and truthful either with others or himself.  Hell, I am sure he has lied on more than one occasion - his veracity or accuracy are not under discussion here.  I would even go so far as to say here that the only people whose integrity I respect from back then are possibly Pam Hobbs' father and Dan Stidham.  And the latter, even, was young, naive and out of his depth then!

Had the lad reported the cruelty of the incident with the dog back when it happened I would have a bit more confidence in his later statement.  Was a Great Dane ever reported as missing even?  I do not doubt that some of the anger among some of those youths will have manifested itself in a myraid of ways.  Animal cruelty can be a strong marker of a future psychopath type however some do grow out of it and we do not even know if the hound either existed or was even alive when this incident took place.  Hell, the whole thing could well have been the product of DE's imagination after finding a skull!  I would not put that past him at all.

Miranda

[chitown_alex]

"It’s not a lesson in grammar, Alex. You are either being obtuse, or really are not as bright as you present yourself. "

Perfect example of presenting opinion as fact.

Dear, dear Alex,

You stated earlier:-

The question raised is what the intentions of the commentator are.

[/i][/size]

You then stated:-

Perfect example of presenting opinion as fact.

[/i][/size

Granted, we have already established that we are in a mixed ability group, but we have also established a degree of recognition for the agility of some for more sophisticated debate!   

The expression 'hoist by his own petard' springs to mind here!  The second quote of Kimbo's post which you used was so very obviously her opinion! 

Let us enjoy debate in it's full technicolour glory rather than simplifying, ad absurdium, to merely black and white?  Monochorme is both so boring and flat.

As stated before ~ the pavlovian response of jumping at the potential 'insult' perceived all the time is a pain - but I do have affection for pink elephants so will not use that analogy!  You, Alex, did it.  then Kimbo did - too funny for words.

Kimbo - let us not try to walk the path of absolute truths on this case as I fear that will never be known.  All we can do in our clumsy way is to  try to see an overview with all the information we have available to us and thus arrive at the closest facsimile of what we feel to be the truth for each of us.

TJM - this was never, for me, a battle between people so gawd knows what you were thinking in saying that you see "Alex vs. Miranda" as humorous?  I for one am enjoying the debate here.  Let us try not to reduce it to a playground fight.  Life would be very boring indeed if we all agreed with each other ALL the time.  The only agreement needed is that we are all allowed to present our views in a kindly manner.

Miranda

ps I never responded to the original post in this thread as it really was, to my mind, unworthy.  If you wish to believe in the totality of a young lad from a dysfunctional background with only a basic education giving a police statement about an event that allegedly occurred about a year earlier then that is, of course, your prerogative.  As, indeed, it is your right to cut and paste selected bits of 'evidence' together to solidify the case you are making.  That is something both prosecutors and defence attornies do!   I do not remember the kid being called tto testify.  Doubtless someone will 'remind' me gently if necessary - hopefully it will not be done as a point scoring exercise!

It would certainly be beneficial for everyone to enjoy our collective debates rather than make ad hominem attacks.  Sheer has clearly made an effort to attack my character by arguing, albeit non-persuasively, that I'm a propagandist.  This brings me to my original thought, which is included herein this thread.  I quite clearly said that, had I been the one to criticize or comment on the merits of someone's thoughts, I would have quickly been heralded as pompous and arrogant, which I have been done so before.  The existence of this double standard, given within the confines on which we are currently present, is not surprising.  However, is it necessary to include jabs such as "unless I've overestimated your intelligence," "you don't see the pink elephant in the room," and "you're a propagandist?"  I think not. 

[Miranda]

Sorry tjm I missed the last paragraph of your post.

What is callaghan's?  An Irish Bar?

It took me forever to watch those DVD's as they did not have any commercial breaks in them and my concentration span is only about 5 minutes.  I was faster in my youth and managed at about 3 minutes.

Anyway I had to keep stopping the DVD and then winding back and starting again cos I forgot where I stopped it.  And, of course, the accents were totally alien to me and that was hard for me and my hearing aid to cope with.

I think that DE is totally cool - or should I say hot?  I want to start a fan club for him and all his friends over here and I think they should all be let out of prison straight away whilst those involved in the prosecution should be undressed.

Over here the number of people leaving skule unable to read and write is going up but I guess illiteracy is not a problem in the brave new world.  You guys are so lucky - you should make JM president and then he would raise Washington DC and build a great big nascar track - actually turn the Interstate network into one whilst you are about it and then you guys can deplete the oil reserves by racing around until you are all done.

Sarcasm is the very lowest form of wit but can be oh such fun and such a temptation!

[Miranda]

Come on Alex.  The Pink Elephant was FUNNY!

I have a painting of one walking through a sea of flames!

No pun intended

Miranda

Also there was an implicit compliment in the line of Kimbo's about overestimation.  Did you miss it????

I like Sheer now that I have got to know her. She has a sharp incisive brain and is articulate.  She does have a tendency to jump to the defence of those nons who she thinks may need it but it is her board too so that is ok. It is what good moderators should do!  I just see it as her maternal side!  She also argues her stance voraciously, but in my book that is a plus.

[chitown_alex]

I'll admit it was funny! 

[sheer]

Sheer has clearly made an effort to attack my character by arguing, albeit non-persuasively, that I'm a propagandist.

No, that wasn't me. Did you want it to be? It was Kimbo, I believe.
I can't be arsed to attack your character? Not when it's so easy to attack your lack of knowledge concerning the case.

What I did was rightly point out that you always fail to address any facts of this case. You embarrassed yourself over Carson because you hadn't read the documents, yet you still felt you had the authority to pontificate about him and make judgements about innocence and guilt based on your incorrect assumptions.

Yet again you fail to address anything to do with the case. 

sheer

[Farm]

Well, let's cut through the supporter bullshit again, shall we?

Not a single supporter in 14 years has been able to offer anymore in the way of evidence that Misskelly gave a false confession.

They STILL cannot explain WHY he confessed.

So here it is.

If you think his confession should be disregarded - you are a pathetic asshole.

There really isn't much further discussion on the topic until you can offer some sort of proof that he was lying.

And until you can answer WHY - well, you're a joke.

[taylorjaysmommy]

Sorry tjm I missed the last paragraph of your post.

What is callaghan's?  An Irish Bar?

I guess that is the problem, perhaps if you had known how to spell it correctly, you would have surely read it.  Lemme' help you out with that, ok?  http://callahan.8k.com/, but if you want to see where I got my info to 'copy and paste' the statement about  Damien killing the Great Dane, here it is to narrow down your task of searching:  http://callahan.8k.com/wm3/joehb.html

It took me forever to watch those DVD's as they did not have any commercial breaks in them and my concentration span is only about 5 minutes.  I was faster in my youth and managed at about 3 minutes. 

I will try my best at a bit of friendly humor with you here though:  Now, with your admission of attention span length, you can see exactly why I have a hard time with most of your posts? 

Anyway I had to keep stopping the DVD and then winding back and starting again cos I forgot where I stopped it.  And, of course, the accents were totally alien to me and that was hard for me and my hearing aid to cope with.

Of course.

I think that DE is totally cool - or should I say hot?  I want to start a fan club for him and all his friends over here and I think they should all be let out of prison straight away whilst those involved in the prosecution should be undressed.

Ummmmm, No Comment

Over here the number of people leaving skule unable to read and write is going up but I guess illiteracy is not a problem in the brave new world.  You guys are so lucky - you should make JM president and then he would raise Washington DC and build a great big nascar track - actually turn the Interstate network into one whilst you are about it and then you guys can deplete the oil reserves by racing around until you are all done.

I don't even want to know what you think that you are talking about in that paragraph.......so, No comment

Sarcasm is the very lowest form of wit but can be oh such fun and such a temptation!

Yes, and it is very hard to have a battle of wits with an unarmed person, don't ya' think?


However, just in case you don't want to take the time to find and read it, your attention span will not accomodate it, or for whatever reason, here it is "again".  Go ahead and read it and just imagine how 'cool and hot' he was, especially while doing this:

INVETIGATIVE REPORT
TRIPLE HOMICIDE
BYERS/MOORE/BRANCH

ON 061493, I DETECTIVE B. RIDGE INTERVIEWED JOE HOUSTON BARTOUSH AT THE RESIDENCE OF HUBERT BARTOUSH AT 1037 PARK STREET IN WEST MEMPHIS, ARKANSAS. JOE WAS PRESENT WHEN I WAS INTERVIEWING HUBERT ABOUT THE WHEREABOUTS OF JASON BALDWIN ON THE DATE OF 050593. JOE STATED THAT HE HAD BEEN WITH DAMIEN ON 112792 WHEN DAMIEN HAD KILLED A DOG IN LAKESHORE TRAILER PARK.

JOE STATED THAT HE AND DAMIEN WERE WALKING ON THE ROAD THAT GOES WEST OUT OF LAKESHORE INTO THE FIELDS WHEN THEY CAME UPON A SICK BLACK GREAT DANE DOG. THE DOG WAS LAYING ON THE GROUND AND DAMIEN GOT A BRICK AND STRUCK THE DOG IN THE BACK OF THE HEAD. THE DOG WAS DEAD AT WHICH TIME DAMIEN STARTED JUMPING ON THE DOG AND KICKING IT. DAMIEN STATED THAT HE WAS TRYING TO MAKE THE DOG'S EYES POP OUT AND BLOOD STARTED COMING OUT OF THE DOG'S MOUTH.
JOE STATED THAT DAMIEN HAD A CAMOFLAGE SURVIVAL KNIFE THAT HE CUT THE DOG WITH AND STARTED PULLING THE DOG'S INTESTINES OUT AND STRETCHING THEM OUT TELLING JOE TO HOLD ONE END.
DAMIEN TOLD JOE THAT HE WAS GOING TO COME BACK TO THE DOG WITH SOME BATTERY ACID SO THAT HE COULD BURN THE SKIN AND HAIR OFF OF THE DOG'S SKULL AND TAKE IT HOME WITH HIM. JOE STATED THAT DAMIEN HAD TWO CAT SKULLS, A DOG SKULL, AND A RAT SKULL THAT HE KEPT IN HIS HOUSE WHEN HE LIVED IN JACK ECHOL'S HOUSE IN LAKESHORE BEFORE HE MOVED TO WEST MEMPHIS.

JOE STATED THAT DAMIEN HAD USED A KNIFE TO SCRATCH HIS NAME IN HIS ARM WITH ON ONE OCCASION BUT THAT HE DIDN'T KNOW OF ANY OTHER KNIVES THAT DAMIEN MAY HAVE USED.

JOE WAS SURE OF THE DATE OF THE DOG KILLING BECAUSE HE SKIPPED SCHOOL ON THAT DATE AND GOT CAUGHT.


DETECTIVE B. RIDGE
WEST MEMPHIS POLICE DEPARTMENT

And, this dude didn't actually 'see him' do it, so it is hearsay. I am sure that if you will not believe an eyewitness, you will for sure scoff over secondhand accounts.  However it is somewhat interesting to me, and might be to you if you would take no more than 3 minutes and read it.   I will just copy and paste' this little jewel for you too, since it is on Callahans, and not CallaGhans and you are very unlikely to find it or read it for yourself:

6/22/93

I've known Jason since He's lived in lakeshore.
friend I've known Damien since I heard he got back from Oregeon. I've heard Jason say that Damien was in the
crazy house in Oregeon. Damien & Jason were always together
they spent alot of time in West Memphis at Wal-Mart
They stole alot of stuff I always seen just Jason & Damien & Domini together walking around lakeshore
there was a big black Great Dane Dog at lakeshore
that I saw on the trail over the Bridge to the right as you
go over the bridge it was Dead It's intestines was strung out
of his butt A boy named Adam told me he heard Damien did it.
Adam's last name is Phillips he lives in lakeshore A boy named Ken was new out there he stayed at Jason's alot he used to be over there Day & Night he went to school last year he was in 9th he always wore a Notre Dame hat he was skinny
hes had black hair it was short hair in the back it was long in
the front he's A little shorter than me in height
the time we talked he said he knew Karate.
Me & Jason used to be friends until Damien started
running with him When Damien started wearing black Jason did. Jason seemed alright to me.

Case doc#00?483

And Your Welcome,
TJM

[taylorjaysmommy]

Damn Farm, he was just a "Lad" from a "Dysfunctional background", with a low i.q. to boot, he had no right to think, much less  talk, what is wrong with you, and what part of that are you not understanding?   Good Grief !

TJM

[chitown_alex]

Well, let's cut through the supporter bullshit again, shall we?

Not a single supporter in 14 years has been able to offer anymore in the way of evidence that Misskelly gave a false confession.

They STILL cannot explain WHY he confessed.

So here it is.

If you think his confession should be disregarded - you are a pathetic asshole.

There really isn't much further discussion on the topic until you can offer some sort of proof that he was lying.

And until you can answer WHY - well, you're a joke.

Can you not read Farm?  All three "confessions" would be probative had they contained factual information.  This guy got so many things wrong, it's baffling.  Anyone who fails to see that either refuses to read the entire transcripts or is an idiot. 

For the record, I don't think the confession should have been disregarded at trial either.  I would have used it to impeach my own client - Jessie.

[LaCosaNostra44]

All three "confessions" would be probative had they contained factual information.

They did..... or did you just stop at the "9am" and "brown rope" parts?

This guy got so many things wrong, it's baffling. 

He got soooo much right..it's baffling. Across multiple confessions...

And did he get it wrong or was he being misleading...


For the record, I don't think the confession should have been disregarded at trial either.  I would have used it to impeach my own client - Jessie.

So how do supporters reconcile the idea that he was borderline retarded and yet still expect him have a nailed down confession?

You don't see the inherent contradiction in holding those two positions simultaneously, do you?

[taylorjaysmommy]

Can you not read Farm?  All three "confessions" would be probative had they contained factual information.  This guy got so many things wrong, it's baffling.  Anyone who fails to see that either refuses to read the entire transcripts or is an idiot. 

Alex,
Did you happen to read this:



DAVIS: Ok what about you? Were you, did you drink to the point you were intoxicated?

MISSKELLEY: I drunk to a point I was sick.
DAVIS: Ok. And when you drank, drink anything with the Whiskey?

MISSKELLEY: No.

DAVIS: Ok. What brand was it?

DAVIS: Evan Williams.

Alex, you can read the entire thing here, that is if your not too busy:  http://callahan.8k.com/wm3/jmfeb.html

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm...................I am wondering if that E.W. had anything to do with his recollecting of events?


Which makes me think of this:  (However we won't even get into this now, as it is another subject, which I doubt that you have read or would believe)


To quote Mr. Stidham, I believe at that time, "If we can find a bottle like he says, then that will convince me that it happened."  At 9:30 or 10:00 at night we drive -- ten o'clock in the evening -- we proceed, the four of us, to roam underneath the overpasses of West Memphis and lo and behold find a broken bottle in the location indicated by his client.

However if you would like to read all about that, you can find it here, as it is VERY interesting:
http://callahan.8k.com/wm3/prefeb22.html

Your Welcome Alex :laugh:

TJM

[taylorjaysmommy]

Not to mention nasturtiums!

Miranda

Damn Miranda!

I get so tired of scratching my head because of some of the crap in your posts!  You won't get me this time!     I googled your ass! 
What the hell does 'nasturtiums'  have to do with........anything?

Nasturtium
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
This article is about the flowering plants of the genus Tropaeolum, commonly called nasturtiums. For the genus of watercresses, see Nasturtium 
Nasturtium (literally "nose-twister" or "nose-tweaker"), as a common name, refers to a genus of roughly 80 species of annual and perennial herbaceous flowering plants in the genus Tropaeolum ("Trophy"), one of three genera in the family Tropaeolaceae. It should not be confused with the Watercresses of the genus Nasturtium, of the Mustard family. This genus, native to South and Central America, includes several very popular garden plants, the most commonly grown being T. majus, T. peregrinum and T. speciosum. The hardiest species is T. polyphyllum from Chile, the perennial roots of which can survive underground when air temperatures drop as low as -15°C
You made me laugh this time, and I do have to admit that the NASTURTIUMs are very pretty !
But, I have posted this plainly for you twice and you still have not 'read' it, have you?  If so, you wouldn't have posted this:
""  Hell, the whole thing could well have been the product of DE's imagination after finding a skull!  I would not put that past him at all."" 

Wow.  That is really quite amazing.  I'm pretty speechless over it too, so will refrain from even addressing it.  I really do wish that you would take half as much interest in reading some of the case transcripts of a case that you choose to be a member on a forum regarding,  as you do in............flowers and USA bashing.


Your Welcome Miranda,

TJM

P.S.  I even made this thread especially for you, put your name in the title in honor of you............and you still didn't read all of it.  I'm so sad.