I have a question about Dale W Griffis PhD.??

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[taylorjaysmommy]

 This is something that I have wondered about and was wondering if anyone can help me out.  Where and when did Damien supposedly say this that I have highlighted in yellow?  It kind of makes it sound like it was during the trial, but I personally have never heard this before, and would think that it would have been a biggy and would have been repeated.  Please don't laugh at me for not knowing, but honestly I haven't heard this exact statement but figured that some of you on here have and can lead me to more information on it.
I also went ahead and added Griffis's opinions that I have read many times before and sure that you all have too, but they are interesting and I thought someone else might want to refresh.


Thanks,
TJM


In a recent interview Griffis described his experience during the trial. 


During the trial, Griffis says he was on the stand for six hours, five-and-a-half of which were spent having his credentials approved.  [snip]  He adds his dissertation at Columbia Pacific was a 230-page work on mind control cults and their effects on law enforcement, noting he chose the school because it was the only one that offered the program he wanted.  “This was not some place that my dog graduated from,” he says.   [Zachary Petit, Tiffin Advertiser Tribune, March 11, 2007]


    His time qualifying as a witness, which was recorded, was closer to two-and-a-half hours.  Griffis went on in the Tribune interview to make the remarkable claim that Damien Echols confessed after his testimony. 

“When he got done testifying, what you didn’t see on television, what you didn’t see in the movie ‘Paradise Lost,’ was the fact that Damien Echols said, ‘I got three, I had 10 more to go for my coven, but that damn cop from Ohio stopped me,’” he [Griffis] says. “What bothers me is people aren’t told the truth of what happened.” [ibid]


    The Supreme Court of Arkansas affirmed Burnett's decision to qualify Griffis as an expert, noting his having been qualified as an expert witness in Georgia, Ohio, and Michigan.  Presented below is the full list of factors cited by the Supreme Court of Arkansas in support of Griffis' findings:

He [Griffis] testified that the date of the killings, near a pagan holiday, was significant, as well as the fact that there was a full moon.
He stated that young children are often sought for sacrifice because "the younger, the more innocent, the better the life force."
He testified that there were three victims, and the number three had significance in occultism.
Also, the victims were all eight years old, and eight is a witches' number.
He testified that sacrifices are often done near water for a baptism-type rite or just to wash the blood away.
The fact that the victims were tied ankle to wrist was significant because this was done to display the genitalia, and the removal of Byers's testicles was significant because testicles are removed for the semen.
He stated that the absence of blood at the scene could be significant because cult members store blood for future services in which they would drink the blood or bathe in it.
He testified that the "overkill" or multiple cuts could reflect occult overtones.
Dr. Griffis testified that there was significance in injuries to the left side of the victims as distinguished from the right side: People who practice occultism will use the midline theory, drawing straight down through the body.  The right side is related to those things synonymous with Christianity while the left side is that of the practitioners of the satanic occult.
He testified that the clear place on the bank could be consistent with a ceremony.
In sum, Dr. Griffis testified there was significant evidence of satanic ritual killings.   

[Tricky8oy]

Hi TJM.

Is this the same Dr Griffis that got his degree from a defunct mail order college? If so why wouldn't the prosecution have called a witness with more prestigious credentials on the occult or ritualistic sacrifices? If its not the same witness can you please give a link to the quote or quotes? Also i vaguely remember a witness similar to this at Misskelley's trial in PL. Is this the same one? and was he a witness at the Echols/Baldwin trials?

[Miranda]

Hi TJ,

This is possibly one of the few areas of the case that even som nons may be in agreement with those of us who regard his testimony with a healthy and necessary degree of cynicism.

His 'PhD' was mail order and that 'establishment' has since closed.  It was more of a money machine, I think, than an edcational establishment.

To the best of my knowledge no one has found any satanic ritualistic killings in the USA during that time of high panic.  Griffis did, however, manage to somehow get bookings for talks and presentations.  I am pretty certain that the FBI had no record of any such crimes!

I, too, have read that 'quote'.  I am pretty certain that it is only in the context of Griffis talking about this case and thus pure hearsay!

There is documentation of him (DE) allegedly telling some of the softball girls (I believe) something to the effect that he was not done yet!  I think that that is quite possible and may well have been a supreme example of him being a total jerk and braggart aiming to both 'impress' and deflect the attention he was getting due to the rumours.  He was a jerk as well as being very messed up.

If anyone cares to rebut my 'take' on the value of Griffis 'degree', along with his doctrate, it would be interesting.  I do not even know at what University he earned his degree, nor what discipline.  Did he not later write about brain washing and mind control?  Or is my age showing here and I have  got it wrong?

There were documented 'satanic' killings allegedly in Italy involving some group - but not involving kids - I seem to remember.

Miranda

I thought that Griffis had been interviewed quite a long time ago.  Surprised that he is raising his head again unless he see $$$ signs some where in the frame.

[Farm]

This is possibly one of the few areas of the case that even som nons may be in agreement with those of us who regard his testimony with a healthy and necessary degree of cynicism.

When it comes to frauds, Griffis would have to stand on Turvey's shoulders to kiss Ofshe's ass.

[taylorjaysmommy]

Hi TJM.

Is this the same Dr Griffis that got his degree from a defunct mail order college? If so why wouldn't the prosecution have called a witness with more prestigious credentials on the occult or ritualistic sacrifices? If its not the same witness can you please give a link to the quote or quotes? Also i vaguely remember a witness similar to this at Misskelley's trial in PL. Is this the same one? and was he a witness at the Echols/Baldwin trials?

Hey Tricky!
I am sorry that I neglected checking this post, after I started it by asking this question.
To answer your questions:.  Yes, I believe that we are certainly talking about the same person. 
I don't know, guess I should google it, but possibly there are not many experts with actual degrees on the occult?  I happen to think that it wouldn't have mattered to supporters if satan himself came to testify on the occult in this trial.  There would be people to question his credentials and blow off his testimony, if it painted the murderers in a negative way. 
But to answer your question as to where I found the post.  I have to admit that I am a Trench Reynolds 'Trenchcoat Chronicles' reader and fan............so that is one of the places that I found this.  I posted this with the curiosity of exactly 'where' 'when' and 'why' and who else heard this from Damien.  I googled it and found it in another place or two, but I was just wanting to know the specifics of this exact comment.  Oh, and here is where to find the Trench Reynolds link:  http://thetrenchcoat.com/?s=dale+griffis
It is similar, but not exact as to what the softball girls heard.     
Being the non that I am.........I am just wondering if it was said in the trial, but not allowed to be used or something.  You know that I am sitting here believing every word of it, regardless where he got his diploma.  Some of the most ignorant people I know have at least one 'real' degree in something.  Sometimes knowledge and sense comes from within and a degree or piece of paper, or lack of does not take that away, or give it.  Thats just my opinion.

Always Good to see you Tricky

TJM

[addict]

“When he got done testifying, what you didn’t see on television, what you didn’t see in the movie ‘Paradise Lost,’ was the fact that Damien Echols said, ‘I got three, I had 10 more to go for my coven, but that damn cop from Ohio stopped me,’” he [Griffis] says. “What bothers me is people aren’t told the truth of what happened.” [ibid]

This is the first I've ever heard this, and I've heard a few things about what Damien allegedly said following the trials.  Were the WMPD even in touch with Griffis before Echols was arrested?  I know there is this from February 1994, but I've seen no indication that Griffis played a part before then: http://callahan.8k.com/wm3/griffis.html   I'd definitely be interested if anyone could show the WMPD was in contact with Griffis prior to the arrests, however.

I happen to think that it wouldn't have mattered to supporters if satan himself came to testify on the occult in this trial.  There would be people to question his credentials and blow off his testimony, if it painted the murderers in a negative way. 

Does Satan carry credentials (besides the pitchfork and horns)?
 

I am just wondering if it was said in the trial, but not allowed to be used or something.

Was what said during the trial?  The bit about a cop from Ohio?  No.  But if you meant something else then let me know, please.

Sometimes knowledge and sense comes from within and a degree or piece of paper, or lack of does not take that away, or give it.

Agreed. And sometimes people with tons of degrees have no common sense and seem really stupid when it comes to anything outside of their field. Personally, I think Griffis is a joke.  Completely subjective, of course, but I doubt too many people disagree with me.

[taylorjaysmommy]

I obviously don't know where this came from, hence why I posted this question in the first place.  I may have taken it wrong, but it appeared to me to be something that Damien said after a testimony?  I know that ther e are things that were not added to the script of PL, of course , because such things would have completely went against the entire reason for those movies being made anywahy.  There were tings in the t  I would just like to figure out where and why and in front of who this comment was supposed to have been said.  TJM

[Miranda]

HiTJM,

If memory serves me well here I think it was Griffis who had been employed by an air freight company and flew to Haiti regularly.  Whether this 'inspired' his interest in witch craft etcetera one cannot know.  He then had a career change and after obtaining 'mail order' PhD he launched himself onto centre stage as an expert.  I am pretty sure this was Griffis' back ground but it might just have been Jerry Driver's and I shall be firmly corrected by someone in the know and on top of their facts.
He also wrote some stuff, I believe, on kids being taken away and brain washed by aliens (or even  the government) or something - very odd character!

Griffis' account of what Echols said off camera did not emerge until some time later in a newspaper piece done on Griffis, I believe.  So how much of that one chooses to believe depends on the person's perception of the media and reporter concerned.


Another point is that being a documentary there is no script per se.  Obviously some scenes were shot in fly on wall style and others were, to a degree, staged or at least set-up (in the cinematographic sense).

Also, the unit originally arrived in West Memphis, I understand, to film the back ground and the trial of three teens who had been indulging in satanic rituals etc.  The film makers believed them to be guilty initially.  They changed their minds as they learnt more and thus had to return to HBO in NY (?) to get the clearance to continue filming but with an agenda that had shifted!  The budget could well have been pulled out from under them.

[Fwarm]

Griffis was a policemen in Ohio. He also worked with LA and SanFran police.

[Miranda]

Griffis was a policemen in Ohio. He also worked with LA and SanFran police.

Thanks Scott.  He sort of advised quite a few Police Departments I think?  Or did courses for on matters satanic back when?

So was it Driver who was in air cargo business and on the Haiti run?

Miranda

[Fwarm]

He was an officer on the police force and retired as Captain. He didn't just fall off the pumpkin wagon as people who bang the drums of wannabe satanist and freaks accuse.

As far said they wouldn't even reach his ass.

[Miranda]

Would you happen to know what subject/discipline his original degree was in?

I guess this means that Driver is the one in air freight then!  So my apologies for any I might have been leading astray before Scott jumped to rescue with correction.

How does the rank of captain transpose in military terms?  Is it officer class or lower rank?  And are police ranks consistent across the country?  I have noticed that some small communities seem to have Sherriffs still and cannot quite fathom what the base lines are for qualifications for joining the force.  Police - not starwars!  Do tings like that vary enormously from state to state?

Thanks,

Miranda

More flood warnings here - hope Sheer is ok.

[Fwarm]

Captain is like Colonel depending on the force structure. It was a sheriff’s department so he would be a Shift Commander or Lead Investigator.

A captain on a big city police force would be more like a Sheriff or General in military terms.

Captain is as high as you can go on a Sheriff department without running for election as the Sheriff they are not political they are career police officers.

Sheriff
Captain
Lieutenant
Sergeants
Corporals
Patrol

yes it varies from state to state

[taylorjaysmommy]

What Scott posted was correct.  Here in Jonesboro, we have the Sheriff's dept. which does the county or rural areas.  Then the city or Police Dept. follows the same chain of command, remove Sheriff and replace with Chief.   

TJM

[mikespadre]

To be a bit more specific it goes like this in every state;
The state of Arkansas just like the other 49 have state police who have jurisdiction over the whole state they are not bound by city, county but are basically the state wide in every city and county.  the state is divided into counties where the Sheriff the is the Chief law enforcement officer for the county and in these counties are the individual cities who have police dept. that have a police chief so what I am trying to clear up is that the Sherriff of lets just say Crittenden County is the head law enforcement officer for the entire county he would in fact be over each of the cities in that counties cities police departments in a way.  Now not to confuse anyone but most large cities around the state have federal FBI agents including WM which handles all of NE Arkansas and like the State Police have jurisdiction over the entire state since they work for the federal gov. they are not bound by any state lines what so ever.
For the completely stupid I will put it this way.
I live in Marion, Ar. in Crittenden County if I need a cop (call 911) any of the following will respond State Police, Crittenden County Sheriffs dept. or Marion city police or all 3 depending who is closest. Since my address is in Marion and even though WM and Marion touch on the map the WM police will not respond nor will their fire dept.   I hope that clears up just how the system works here in the states.