The thing that gives me the most pause

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78334 Posts in 6920 Topics by 699 Members
Latest Member: ric2pd

[pete zahut]

hey guys, I'm new to all this wm3 stuff. I actually saw Paradise Lost 2 first and thought that was a completely biased documentary - i was mad at all the people blindly supporting these 3 etc. I started looking online at all the support pages etc and got really interested in the case. I then rented the original paradise lost and that was fascinating as all hell. While I still think it was biased it was a hundred times better - more thought provoking etc.

I'm not saying the wm3 didn't do it but here's my biggest thing - the confession - the thing that basically got all three boys convicted - The police say they had a conversation with misskelley for two hours before they started taping. During those two hours they didn't take notes and couldn't remember specifically what was talked about. ok, that's really bad but then hearing and reading the actual confession from jessie - maybe he did do it - but that confession reads A LOT like a really dumb scared kid just trying to please the people in the room and get the hell out of there. they lead him on so many things! They bring up the night, they bring up the stick, they try and get him to correct himself on how the kids were tied up but he's too stupid to pick up on what they are trying to get him to say. the part where he literally starts making up a story where the kids skipped school to go to the creek and the police cut him off. It just makes me question everything. Like he has some details, makes up a loose story and is lead the rest of the way, he gets to the part where it's the time of day and he continues making up a story about the kids skipping school until he is cut off... i don't know. i couldn't convict the three kids on that.

What were their alibis by the way? where did they say they were at the time?

[kerriew]

HI
You do know that Jessie had multiple confessions? Did you read the after conviction confession? Here it is from Callahan's
http://callahan.8k.com/wm3/jmfeb.html

"What were their alibis by the way? where did they say they were at the time?"

They had no alibis. Keep reading the Callahan's site.

[pete zahut]

just read it - this is super addictive - as messed up as that sounds - a couple of questions - Misskelley's lawyer, Stidlim? - he's still acting as the boys lawyer, right? Why would he do that if Jessie confessed in front of him. if he knew Jessie was guilty? Money? I get that there is a lot of money out there now for these lawyer guys so i'm just asking - in paradise lost 2 he seemed pretty dedicated to the case.

Also, I know they say at the beginning of the second confession that Jessie hasn't been offered anything but (and maybe i'm getting this wrong) aren't they getting him to confess more clearly to possibly use him to testify against the other boys in their trial. Isn't there an offer like - reduced sentence if you turn on the other two, confess in court. i know the films, especially the second, are slanted but I remember in the first one the prosecutor guy telling the families that they are trying to get jessie to testify against the other boys and they might have to reduce his sentence to make that happen.

I don't know man, the whole thing - these people all seem so slow - the kids and families I mean, it just amkes it hard to really believe anybody on anything...

[pete zahut]

and the other thing - jason and damian both have really long hair - like I know when I grow my hair out longer it falls out way easier - and like my sisters hair is always left in the tub etc. It's just really strange that no hair would be left behind - let alone blood. i know it's a creek and they could have washed everything off with water but... it's getting dark - they cut the boys up real bad - they were fighting and struggling and no one can find any hair whatsoever?

[kerriew]

"Misskelley's lawyer, Stidlim? - he's still acting as the boys lawyer, right?"

No he's a judge now. I can't really comment on if Stidham really thinks Jessie is innocent or guilty because I don't know.

The second confession was just a clarification statement. Jessie was never offered any deals for testifying against the other two. IMO he got a deal because he was only found guilty of second degree homicide.

[kerriew]

Pete all kinds of hair was found. It just hasn't been tested and it may never be.

[Rudder]

Pete all kinds of hair was found. It just hasn't been tested and it may never be.

And I'm sure there was plenty of hair and skin cell dna left at the scene as well...finding it would have been the hard part. Talk about the quintessential needle in a haystack.

[kerriew]

Yep and blood too. Didn't it rain? That would have soaked alot of blood into the ground. Did anyone check the trees? And besides even though the crime was brutal and horrible, there would not necessarily been alot of blood. Sometimes stab wounds bleed alot and sometimes they don't it depends when they were done. If the victim was near dying lets just say from asphyxiation (sp? lol) and was stabbed at this time there would not have been alot of blood because the bodies own defenses would have lowered the blood pressure and shunted most of the blood to the major organs. In other words the blood would have been deep in the body and because of the lowered BP, you would have limited venous and arterial blood splatter.

[TJM]

I believe that  the inconsistencies in his story had alot to do with:

[flexj]

Hi Pete, welcome to the board
 Here is one of the links to the actual blood report at the scene
http://callahan.8k.com/wm3/luminol_dsmith.html

When blood comes in contact with water it breaks it down, and in most cases very difficult to retrieve DNA

[pete zahut]

thanks for the link. fascinating stuff

[DogIsYourName]

Hi Pete,

Consider the following:

1) Jessie's multiple confessions -- why would you confess multiple times over a year long time span?  Why would you confess to police officers when they were driving you to jail immediately following your conviction?  Why would you confess against the advice of your lawyer?  Also, just because Jessie made up some details does not mean everything he said is false.

2) Stidham and Jessie planned to enter a guilty plea before Stidham learned of Paradise Lost.   

3) No verifiable alibi for any of the WM3.

4) A broken Evan Williams bottle was found beneath an overpass where Jessie said he threw it when coming home from the crime scene. 

5) Damien's necklace had blood consistent with Jason or one of the victims. 

6) When asked if Damien wanted to grab some beer if the jury found him not guilty, Damien laughed and said "no more beer."  Prior to this comment, Jessie said Damien had been drinking beer leading up to the attacks.

7) Damien lived in the Mayfair apartments as a child.  The Mayfair apartments are nearly visible from the crime scene, and overlook the pipe bridge

The crime scene is a logical middle spot between the trailer parks.

9) Carson passed his polygraph test.  Damien did not pass his.  (Although I still do not like that the jury could not hear that Carson's counselor discussed the case with him.)

10) Terry Hobbs's hair can be explained by secondary transfer.

11) The crime occured in a wooded area and the bodies were underwater and not recovered until the next day.  This also took place in 1993.  Considering this, you would not expect to find much DNA evidence.

Good luck.

www.3amhighways.com

[mikespadre]

- these people all seem so slow - the kids and families I mean, it just amkes it hard to really believe anybody on anything...

Just what do you mean by this????

[sheer]

I hope he's referring to the " Let's all sing Jessie Happy Birthday" scene.


sheer

[TJM]

- these people all seem so slow - the kids and families I mean, it just amkes it hard to really believe anybody on anything...

Just what do you mean by this????

lol.........Todd !  I seriously don't think that the person meant YOU at all.  Let's be honest here...........your not always out in the limelight, or out making a scene TRYING to get the publics attention.  Your kind of the forgotten one.  Not by us, but just in general when people start delving into this case, your not just all OUT THERE seeking attention.  Your the hidden treasure of it. 

If I take you out of the equation, and look at some of the rest of the characters.............I see exactly what the poster was saying.  In fact, I think that I posted somewhere, a long while back that Arkansas is really not like what it appears in this case.  It is quite odd that there happened to be so many below average intelligence appearing  folks in this ONE case.  So many trailer homes,  just so much darkness, illiteracy, and nastiness.  It gives the complete wrong appearance of Arkansas, IMO. 
I cannot see anyone viewing you in that way.  The poster just obviously forgot to exclude you.