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[112885]

112885 Posts in 8614 Topics by 4618 Members
Latest Member: garrymoore

[Mary7875]

I know this has been covered before, but what the hell.  Our country is overflowing with kids who kill kids. 

Two cases that are relevant to the WM3:

1.  Sam Manzie, fifteen years old, murdered an 11-year-old boy (Eddie Werner) who came to his house selling candy for a school fund raiser.  Manzie strangled the little boy, then hid the body in a wooded area.  They didn't know each other.

"We are afraid of Sam," his father Nick had said in pleading with a judge to have his son committed.  The judge refused, calling Sam "a fine young man."

Three days later, Manzi murdered Eddie Werner.

2.  Eric Smith was 13 years old when he murdered and sexually mutilated four-year-old Derrick Robie. Smith lured the little boy into a wooded area, beat him to death with rocks, and sodomized him with a stick.  They didn't know each other, and Smith had no history of psychiatric or emotional disorders.

Damien Echols was committed three times to a psychiatric institution in the year before the murders.  He admitted to a history of violence.  He was suspended from school 7 times in the last year he attended.

Damien sucked blood, killed at least one animal, and set fires. 

Manzie and Smith couldn't hold a candle to Damien's screwed-up, poverty-driven life.  They came from good, middle-class homes.  They're lighweights, but still they killed little boys who couldn't fight back.

Why is it so difficult for supporters to see the obvious?

[addict]

Manzie and Smith couldn't hold a candle to Damien's screwed-up, poverty-driven life.  They came from good, middle-class homes.  They're lighweights, but still they killed little boys who couldn't fight back.

Why is it so difficult for supporters to see the obvious?

What is the obvious here?  That sometimes teens kill people?  I think we'd all agree on that.  I'd disagree that teens coming from "good, middle-class homes" are less likely to do it though, unless we are talking about drive-by shootings.
 

[sheer]

"We are afraid of Sam," his father Nick had said in pleading with a judge to have his son committed.

That sounds eerily familiar doesn't it?

both parents do not feel that they wish to have him return to their home. They are frightened of him and what he can do, not only to them but to other children that reside in the home (2 others)

500 - PG.150

I'd disagree that teens coming from "good, middle-class homes" are less likely to do it though

I don't think that was what Mary was saying at all. I interpreted her post as saying that Damien has a recordable background of violence and mental ill health that appear to be reaching an apex in the year preceding the murders. She didn't mention less likely and I don't think she inferred it.

We recently had a case where 2 boys (brothers) attacked 2 other boys. It shocked the country but you won't have heard of it as miraculously the 2 boys survived.

The court heard how they (2 boys aged 10 and 11) came across their two young victims at a playground and lured them to a secluded area with the promise of showing them a dead fox.

Once there, the brothers subjected them to a vicious 90-minute attack using branches, sharpened sticks, barbed wire, broken glass, rocks weighing up to two stone, and pieces of metal.

Both victims were repeatedly hit with tree branches and fists as they lay cowering on the ground, the court heard. Their faces were stamped on and heavy rocks dropped on their heads.

At one stage the battered and bloodied victims were forced to attempt to perform sexual acts together.

Later, one was choked with a metal hoop, the older boy putting his foot on his victim's back "for extra leverage", said Nicholas Campbell QC, prosecuting. The younger victim was strangled with a clothes line.

The same victim eventually sustained a deep wound to his arm, which the older brother forced a lit cigarette into. When the terrified nine-year-old said he needed the toilet, he was forced to urinate on his friend's face.

The court heard that as the attack reached its climax, the younger victim was ordered to kill himself. He repeatedly rammed a sharpened stick into his own mouth before slumping against a tree.

His older friend was left for dead after having part of a broken sink dropped on his head. He could not be interviewed by police until 10 days later due to the seriousness of his injuries.

Members of the victims' families sobbed as the court was shown haunting video footage taken by the older brother on a stolen mobile phone midway through the attack. It showed his stricken 11-year-old victim shaking and covered in blood as he was prodded and taunted by the younger of the two brothers (From The Yorkshire Post)

Also:
An 11-year-old boy who was tortured along with a playmate by two young brothers near Doncaster told his battered and bloodied friend, "You go and I'll just die here, " as he lay horrifically injured at the bottom of a muddy ravine.

The court heard yesterday their second victim, aged nine at the time, was deeply traumatised by what took place and wracked with guilt at having had to leave his injured friend to fetch help. In fact his actions in alerting people living nearby probably saved his friend's life.

This boy ^ was found wandering around his village- half naked and bleeding from head to foot.

The boy sustained serious head injuries in the sadistic 90-minute attack, including a fractured cheekbone. He would have died from hypothermia had he not been found soon afterwards, lying half-naked and semi-conscious by a stream after part of a ceramic sink was smashed across his head,

These 2 boys were known to local agencies. Here is what for (from a report carried out by the Children's Safety Board):

-In 2006, one of the boys then aged 8 was excluded from school for threatening teachers with a baseball bat
-Reports of arson were not followed up
-Reports of killing ducks were not followed up
-A pattern of violence against other children was not taken seriously

These 2 boys were raised by an abusive father and a mother with a drug habit.

The house where the boys lived with their mother had a "Beware of the Kids" sign hanging by the front door.

Neighbours say:

Other people said the brothers looked like they were "crying out for attention". One neighbour said: "She never cooked a meal for them. They just scavenged for food or just ate fish and chips and stuff.

"Every day I saw them they were scruffier. Their fingernails were always black. Their shoes were too big for them. They used to scavenge trainers and tracksuit bottoms from skips."

They were like animals.


Anyway- my point was that there are similarities - these boys had a history of violent behaviour. They lived in poverty, they were outcasts, they moved around. And top child psychiatrist Dr. Eileen Vizard (who was also involved in the Bulger case) clearly saw differences between the 2 boys. The younger of the 2 -she warned- was a high risk to the community and would develop anti social personality disorder. He was not the same as the other boy.
You see, some supporters always cite Jason as some kind of indicator that the wm3 couldn't have carried out this crime. In the Yorkshire case, one boy was worse than the other- yet the other still tried to murder his victim through committing obscene and violent acts.
 
Links:

http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/No-remorse-The-39potential-psychopath39.5999602.jp
http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/edlington-attacks/Full-horror-of-savage-attack.5997541.jp
http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/edlington-attacks/The-sadists39-mother-Blighted-by.5617843.jp
http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/edlington-attacks/Targets-of-brothers39-hate-tell.5620666.jp

[Rudder]

I know I've brought up the Craig Sorger case a few times, I think this one hits really close to home with me because my son Julian is also autistic and the fact that those two scumbags lured that poor little boy to his death with the promise of friendship just breaks my heart.

“There was a knock on the door. And I answered the door. And there were two boys in hooded sweatshirts that asked if Craig could come out and play,” recalls Lisa Sorger.

It was the first time Evan and Jake had knocked on Craig’s door. Craig was considered learning disabled and he had once been diagnosed as slightly autistic.

“Craig, of course, heard, because he was sitting right there. And he goes, ‘Oh, yes, Mom. Can I go out and play please? Can I go out?’ And I said OK. And he said, ‘Thanks, Mom,’ and gave me a hug and a kiss, and went out the door,” says Lisa. “No one really came over and asked him to play.”
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/07/22/60II/main710981.shtml

I just googled the case to post some facts about the case and found this petition (about a year before the confessions):

In the case of Jake Eakin and Evan Savoie, a life was lost. The life of Craig Sorger, who was all of thirteen. At the time he was attacked and killed, Jake and Evan were only twelve and rather small. Unfortunately, Jake and Evan made one fatal mistake. They were friends to Craig. They played with him and talked to him and yes, even laughed with him. And on that fateful day in February of 2003, in Ephrata, Washington, they went right up to his door and asked his mother if he could come out and play. A short time later, Craig was dead and Jake and Evan were at home.

What the prosecution claims as an open and shut case against Eakin and Savoie is anything but. They have maintained their innocence since day one and their stories about what transpired that day are not only alike, but remain the same after over a year of being locked away in a juvenile justice center. So many factors and facts about that day have been ignored and overlooked and two terrified and frightened little boys face the possibility of spending the next twenty-six years in prison for something they continue to deny.

Can we, as human beings, ignore any of this? No. We must help bring justice back to children. Both boys are now facing an adult court due to this crime. And just recently, an eighteen year old was tried and sentenced AS A JUVENILE in this same state for one count of 2nd Degree rape and one count of 3rd Degree rape. A juvenile at eighteen but at thirteen, Jake and Evan face adult court and incarceration. Where is any logic in that? There is none. There is no evidence, no motive, no DNA, no fingerprints and no confessions. It is apparent that prosecuting these two children amounts to no less than a witch-hunt where innocent children suffer. The state of Washington needs to see to it that the investigators in Ephrata not only actually investigate, but that they find actual evidence and use it to arrest the real perpetrator or perpetrators and stop looking for easy answers when it comes to "closing" a case.

We ask that you sign our petition to help bring attention to Jake and Evan’s situation and hopefully give them the true justice they deserve as children. Thank you.
http://www.petitiononline.com/BI062804/petition.html

Dumbasses. How easily they are fooled by the thought that kids just couldn't do this kind of thing. The only motive in the case is that the one little piece of shit wanted to murder. And of course, the other little piece of shit went along and participated for no other reason than peer pressure:

In a confession recited by his lawyer, Eakin described watching his former fishing buddy, Evan Savoie, drop a rock on Sorger's head, then standing by as Savoie repeatedly stabbed Sorger. After being taunted by Savoie, Eakin said, he picked up a stick and pummeled Sorger until it broke. Then he picked up another stick and continued the beating.
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2002257095_plea29m.html

And here's the confession a little more in-depth:

Wearing handcuffs, eyeglasses and slicked-back, shoulder-length hair, a pale Eakin trembled at times as he described from the witness stand the rainy day he and Savoie went to the park to play. At one point, Savoie pulled a knife out of his pocket and told Eakin he “wanted to go on a killing spree.”

Minutes later, the boys went to Sorger’s nearby travel trailer, where his family was living, to ask him to play. Eakin said they roamed the park, playing near a canal, for several minutes before stopping to build a fort in a wooded area.

Savoie then asked Sorger to feel the ground to see if it was wet. He told Sorger to touch the ground for 10 seconds; Sorger got on his knees and began counting to 10. At nine, Savoie dropped a rock the “size of a basketball” on the back of Sorger’s neck, knocking the boy to the ground, Eakin said.

Eakin paused as he recalled the look of pain on Sorger’s face, taking his only long look at Savoie. Savoie did not glance up from writing on a legal pad.

“I got up and tried to stop him. I just told him, I just got up and I was like, ’Stop,”’ Eakin said. “He pushed me.”

Savoie then began hitting Sorger — perhaps more than 30 times, Eakin said. Several times Sorger tried to get away, crying out, “Why are you doing this to me,” but Savoie repeatedly pulled him back to the ground and continued striking him. Eakin said he didn’t see anything in Savoie’s hand, but did see blood coming from Savoie’s neck as the boy cried out.

“He was saying that he was dying,” Eakin said. “He was face down. Evan was on top on his knees.”

The attack lasted just minutes, after which Sorger remained motionless on the ground, Eakin said. Looking down at his hands on his lap, and flushing slightly, Eakin then recounted how he picked up a stick and began hitting Sorger in the head and legs more than 20 times before throwing the stick to the ground.

Savoie said nothing, Eakin said. “He walked to me and he shook my hand.”
http://www.spokesmanreview.com/breaking/story.asp?ID=6486

[Tammy]

Another blood drinker...

EUSTIS — The slayings were so gruesome that many shocked Central Floridians could hardly believe the killer was a teenage “vampire.”

A Eustis couple was found bludgeoned to death at home three days before Thanksgiving 10 years ago.

Their assailant: a 16-year-old Kentucky boy who claimed he’d live forever.

The slayings would come to be known as the “Vampire Cult Killings,” and the story has since been made into a low-budget film, several true-crime books and a TV docudrama.

But since 1996, the tragedy of Richard and Ruth Wendorf — and their youngest daughter, Heather — has become more than a repeat episode on Court TV.

“It would rank as one of the more notorious murder cases in Lake County history,” said State Attorney Brad King, the lead prosecutor in the teenage killer’s case.

Today King teaches the case to high school students as a warning about how easy it is to fall into a situation with “monumental consequences.”

Serving life in prison, self-proclaimed vampire-cult leader Rod Ferrell wasn’t the only one convicted in the Wendorfs’ slayings. Along with him, three teenagers who didn’t aid Ferrell in slaying the couple — but who knew his plans and agreed to help — were sentenced to prison.

Talk of the killings started as harmless chatter during a late November 1996 road trip. Ferrell drove from Kentucky to Eustis with a carload of followers to meet up with Heather Wendorf.

Ferrell, a Eustis High dropout who moved to Murray, Ky., had met and befriended Heather, 15, the year before. Wearing black clothing, lipstick and black nail polish, the group called themselves vampires, drank each other’s blood and declared Ferrell their “maker.”

They later told investigators they were as close as family.

“I’m not sure they really, really knew that he [Ferrell] was capable of doing what he did,” said Al Gussler, a Lake County sheriff’s detective who was lead investigator in the case. “It was their little group of vampires just talking bad stuff.”

But on a Monday night — Nov. 25, 1996 — Ferrell and Howard Scott Anderson, 16, entered the Wendorfs’ home through the garage.

Anderson later told detectives he couldn’t kill Ruth Wendorf, as planned. It was Ferrell who fatally beat Ruth, 54, and her 49-year-old husband with a crowbar. Their bloodied bodies were discovered by Heather’s 17-year-old sister, Jennifer.

After the slayings, Ferrell, Anderson, two other cult members — Ferrell’s girlfriend Charity Keesee, 16, and Dana Cooper, 19 — and Heather took off in the Wendorfs’ Ford Explorer.

Detectives tracked them down three days later in Baton Rouge, La.

In the months that followed, a judge found all teenagers involved — except Heather — shared guilt in the killings.

Ferrell pleaded guilty to murder and was initially sentenced to death. But because of his age, he was later given a life sentence. He is serving his sentence at New River West Correctional Institution in Wewahitchka.

Anderson, now 26, pleaded guilty to being a principal to first-degree murder and also is serving a life sentence.Cooper, now 29, knew about the murder plot and joined the road trip. She pleaded guilty to two reduced counts of principal to third-degree murder and one count each of principal to armed burglary and principal to armed robbery. She is slated to be released from a Florida Panhandle prison in 2012.

Keesee, now 26, pleaded guilty to the same charges as Cooper. She was released in March but couldn’t be reached for comment.

“It’s sad that these young people would get involved in something like this and follow a particular individual in that direction . . . but they put themselves in that situation,” Gussler said.

Ferrell was proud of his crime, authorities said. “He bragged about the ordeal, about how after killing them he felt this power,” Gussler said. He called himself by the vampire name Vesago and told reporters he was immortal.

“He had his own little fantasy world that he lived in and he thought he was smarter than everybody else,” King said.

Because of his brazenness, the other so-called cult members were afraid of him, Gussler said.

Heather said she was terrified of Ferrell.

“He was your maker,” Heather told the Orlando Sentinel in 1998. “We were one blood, like kin.”

When asked why she didn’t leave the other teens after she learned her parents were dead, Heather told detectives, “I was afraid if I tried to leave he would hurt me.”

Anderson told investigators he entered the Wendorfs’ house with Ferrell intending to rob them, but, he said, “Rod went crazy.”

In court, Cooper’s attorney said her client thought Ferrell was “joking” about killing the Wendorfs. She told authorities she became a vampire to have friends.

Cooper and Keesee left the Wendorfs’ neighborhood with Heather during the murders.

Still, Heather’s involvement — her participation in the vampire cult and her desire to run away from home — was the target of widespread suspicion.

Despite Ferrell’s accusation that she asked him to kill her parents, Heather told investigators and jurors that she didn’t know about their deaths until she left Eustis. She was cleared by two grand juries, which found no proof she knew her parents would be harmed.

In the year following her parents’ murders, Heather lived with a Tavares foster family, where she learned to drive a car and played the piano, said defense attorney Jeff Pfister, who was Heather’s foster parent for about 10 months.

“We tried to protect her,” Pfister said. “Everyone carries their burdens. She carries whatever someone who’s a part of this would.”

He said they never talked about the slayings or Ferrell.

In 1998, during the second grand jury probe, she was attending the North Carolina School of the Arts. Her listed address is still in North Carolina.

Heather, now 25, did not return phone calls for comment. Her surviving family members declined to comment, as did Ferrell’s family, who said they’ve moved on from his violent past.

Years later, students at several Florida high schools listen to the details of the “Vampire Cult Killings.”

It’s part of a yearly lesson State Attorney Brad King gives to American government and legal studies students — with documents and photographs from the case, along with Ferrell’s videotaped confession.

“He’s made a big impact on the students,” says John Dunn, a social studies teacher at Forest High School in Ocala. “It’s not abstract anymore because the students could see the photographs of these people who could be their classmates.”

Showing students how a group of young people could be so easily manipulated teaches them about the legal system, Dunn said. And King added that it might make them think twice before making a bad decision.

“That’s where these kids started, and look where they ended up,” he said.

[Storm]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Shanda_Sharer

Ive been reading about this crime.  This was jealous girls. A really horrific case. Kids can be fucken psychos.

[Tammy]

Oh YEAH! If I recall correctly, 2 or 3 of those girls have since been released from prison.

That poor girl died an agonizing death.

[Storm]

ya 2 of them have been released.  and on one of their myspaces, she put something like, you dont know you werent there, so dont judge me..  its like..umm  you didnt do anything to stop it. hello LOL  then the main girl that did everything is wanting out early too. but I think she got denied.

[Tammy]

Dunno why one of them are in such a hurry to leave prison. She's a lesbian, so I doubt she's getting raped by her fellow inmates.

It's not rape if you're willing, and that Loveless freak, is probably willing.